Last week sometime I had a conversation with my friend Random Man (RM) about committed relationships and marriage that made me think (and you know I try to do that as little as possible). He says, “With the divorce rate being as high as it is and increasing, I don’t know why it’s so important to get married. I don’t think I want to get married. I can be with someone and have a perfectly happy relationship indefinitely with them, but I don’t see why that has to include marriage. I know you don’t agree.”
I responded, “Well, instinctively no, I don’t agree. But I’m trying to hear you out.”
RM: Do you know anyone that has had a “successful” marriage?
C: Well yes. Your grandparents. You always talk about how content they are with each other, but I’m sure there were troubles and things to overcome. I think that in any relationship, married or not, you will have problems. I think not being married gives some people that “out”. So instead of dealing with the problems in the relationship, one is able to say, “Well I’m not married to them anyway, so I don’t have to deal with this.” I don’t know. I generally think that people don’t respect the union of marriage like they used to, and the committment that comes with it. Notice my only example are your GRAND parents. It appears that more and more people marry people for the wrong reasons, while others or some of the same really don’t consider the long term implications. Some want that fairy tale happily ever after, someone to rescue them from their pain. I’m still not saying that all marriages, just because of the committment, are meant to be, or that you should stay with someone you’re miserable with.
RM: I can see how all that could be true. But why would YOU want to get married?
C: Hmph. Well, stastistically, you as a man would have much more to gain from it than I would.
RM: What??
C: Oh yeah. There have been studies about the benefits of marriage, and how married men in particular have better physical health than those who are not married. I suppose they are referring to variety of meals, women setting up doctors appointments, and other similar things. Not saying that all women cook, I’m just discussing these studies. They also report of how there is something to be gained by the structure and organization, as well as financial benefits.
RM: None of this has anything to do with you.
C: I know. I’m just saying.
RM: Can you answer the question?? You don’t strike me as the type of person that would just do something because of social tradition and organization.
C: *sigh* Well, I don’t have an answer. I don’t sit around day dreaming about being married, nor do I say, “OOh I can’t wait until I get married.” I guess I could answer your question if I actually had someone in my life with whom I would even consider doing so. Thinking about getting married without even the prospect of doing so seems stupid to me.
RM: So you’re not going to answer the question, huh?
C: I guess not.
I used to feel the exact same way as Random Man, that there was absolutely no reason for a man to get married other than societal pressures. It was my belief that there was no difference between a monogamous long-term relationship and a marriage except in one the man undergoes significant financial loss, gives up his sexual freedom, and signs off legally on guaranteeing the woman’s financial security both during the marriage and after such time as she decides to fuck her pilates instructor.
However, most of that was from a combination of my hatred of women and the way my close friends have changed as they’ve become married guys. I was reading Na’im Akbar’s “Visions for Black Men,” where he discusses marriage as part of a Black man’s responsibility. If you do not marry a woman, you are just ’shacking’ which is not taking full responsibility for your actions. If you’re not married, you still have an ‘out’ should you decide you don’t want to play anymore. Part of manhood as Prof. Akbar puts it is creating a healthy family unit and being a responsible and fully committed husband and father, with all risks entailed.
Given my respect for Prof. Akbar and the clarity of his argument I’ve softened my views somewhat. I can definitely see myself married one day if I find a Black woman with real integrity, character, and a real sense of personal and cultural responsibility.
The odds of this happening are so infinitesimal as to not even merit discussion. So in the meantime, I’m whoring.
BM ~ why does it have to be a black woman. Why not a white woman?
J ~ Are you sure RM wasn’t feeling you out on the issue prior to making a proposal????
Jeez! I called you J, sorry Constant. And I SHOULD have known better, after all, BM commented first
Yep, ima agree with RM on this one. And as much as BM talks, he knows he agrees internally with RM as well. When C comes up with an answer please let us know. Till then I shall stay single.
Ummm I already said I agreed with RM. Reading Comprehension is an important part of the GRE. Just sayin’
Also, AZ, I’ll be impressed if you stay single through the holiday season. Let’s not front.
OK, note, everyone. This is a rare moment that I’ll actually agree with BM for a second. JUST for a second, that is.
AZ (thanks for stopping by, by the way), I’ve never seen you without 2-3 women. I don’t know anything at all about how committed you are to them. However, I find it difficult to believe that you’re anti-marriage, or whatever. And C is ME! How are you going to comment on MY blog about ME in 3rd person?!? AND how exactly does my answer have anything to do with your singleness?!? AH!
And now that second is over.
Blackminded: I was surely going to say, is it because your boys have gotten married that suddenly your bitter ass is moved enough to consider the option again?? I hardly can believe it’s because you read one book and suddenly overcame your previous thoughts. But please clarify. What significant financial LOSS does a man undergo by getting married?
Dabich- Yeah right. And I don’t know why RM is so bitter. Must be some new age guy thing.
yeah, i was confused for a second, dabich. but as for the marriage thing, well i wrote about that in some sense on my blog. i’m with CR, though. i don’t sit around thinking about how i’d like to be married. i don’t have anyone in my life right now where i even have to think about that kind of stuff. i’m of the sort that if it happens, it happens. it’s even harder to think about for me because i know that i’m not even ready for marriage because it requires a lot of compromise and sacrifice that i’m not ready to make yet. if anything, i worry more about experiencing true love (as sappy and as blow-chunky as it sounds) in my lifetime. in some ways, i do fear marriage because i’ve also read that it’s easier on the man than it is on the woman which is enough to make me want to put the brakes on.
but to conclude, what’s up with RM?
That doesn’t sound bad though, J. I’m still kind of optimistic in that way that I see there is something to gain by experiencing real love with someone deserving of that. I don’t think that’s sappy at all.
I’m not sure what’s up with RM. He might be looking around at all these marriages ending in the media, or with family and friends, and seeing how one can “get screwed over.” Does that mean that will happen?? Well according to BM, it does, but I guess I don’t agree. My experience with relationships hasn’t made me that pessimistic, although I do see how hard it can be to make one work.
I know it might seem a bit odd for me to comment on this (for fairly obvious reasons)… but actually, I have recently been ‘given’ the right to marry as a gay man here in the UK – but in actuality, I don’t want to.
Marrying someone as a gay man would, to me, be embodying something that is inherently a heterosexual tradition and therefore a contradiction in terms.
However, I am also unsure whether I would choose to get married even if I were heterosexual, as I truly believe that if two people love one another then is that ‘tradition’ necessary?
I guess it comes back to what BM said and the desire to have that nuclear unit and the belief that there is something to gain whether it is culturally, socially, financially, emotionally, mentally, whatever from having this.
What is it that we gain from this??
i can’t wait to read this. looks juicy. just got your crabby msg LOL
. luv it. cr, i am still working on the copycat post (there’s MORE)…so you came in during it. NAUGHTY CRAB. LOL. anyways, cheers. no worries about that 
. and i’ll be back in a jiffy to offer my unwanted 2 cents worth 
Ziggy….see, that’s another reason I adore you! What you said makes perfect sense to me. Don’t change a thing about you, not from a sexy hair on your sexy head to your…err…toes :X
lol
OK, to everyone: I am divorced and remarried. When I divorced, I said I wasn’t marrying again. The My man went and blew that sky high. Yes, it takes WORK and DEDICATIONto make something
Ziggy….see, that’s another reason I adore you! What you said makes perfect sense to me. Don’t change a thing about you, not from a sexy hair on your sexy head to your…err…toes :X
lol
OK, to everyone: I am divorced and remarried. When I divorced, I said I wasn’t marrying again. The My man went and blew that sky high. Yes, it takes WORK and DEDICATION to make something the way you want it to be…and BOTH PARTIES have to want it and work at it. That’s the key. My ex wanted all the rules to be his and his idea was “do as I say, not as I do.” F*ck that. My new hubby talks the talk and walks the walk. No lies, no bullshit, no double standards. We share something very special. So, I think the key is to find the RIGHT person. Don’t jump into anything. Take your time. If it takes living together to figure it out, so be it. But remember, it has to be for the RIGHT reasons, not because everyone else is “doing it”.
OK, I’m getting off the soap box :X
CR!! my juicy crab
omg where is my msg??
i wrote a massive one : ( LOL
i’ll try again. at first you don’t succeed, try again. how annoying am i?
. i ‘m with RM’s school of thought:”I can be with someone and have a perfectly happy relationship indefinitely with them” because i’m not the marrying kind…sorta anti tradition, etc. LOL. but if ppl wish to get married, then that’s fine. i just don’t see how a cert will validify our love…i don’t need that sort of declartion or proof. i dunno, i’m so strange!!! but i must say that this is a good point:”Well I’m not married to them anyway, so I don’t have to deal with this.” i never really thought of that. and i must concur: ppl do not seem to respect or value this once scared union. trrruuue. in addition, yeah i noticed that too: ppl marrying for all the wrong reasons. LOL. for instance, they’re rushing, they’re afraid that no one will love ‘em, they’re convinced it will be blissful, or they’ll end up loving the person even more, yada yada. OMG! all sorts of things 
. yeeeeees! i would appear so: women end up with the short straw?? it’s not surpising, huh? men are soo lazy!! and women have to do ALL the work. yes, ALL. aint body gonna refute that? or i’ll slap ‘em. okies, this is MASSIVE! poor you LOL. so sorry 
ya know i don’t usually read other ppls comments before submitting my own. isn’t that odd? i think i don’t wanna get influenced or something?! LOL. anyways, “(and you know I try to do that as little as possible)” Me too!!! you’re soo homer
ps- i hate the copycat mole…she has committed many crimes!! get out your claws. okies, i shall settle down now. this place is a circus : (. just wanna say i knew two crab bitches. but they were really nice, caring girls…until they started exploited ppl. i’m glad i know a different kind of crab! LOL. boo yeah.
i’m truly sorry for the massiveness AND for stalking you
I hate when that happens, Yanas. And you’re not going to hear me refute! lol
I must add a side note: RE: “copycat mole”— Yanas is talking about a post she posted today regarding a blogger copycat who while seeming to try to be deep, plagerizes other folk’s stuff.
That’s so not cute. I wonder if she’ll respond.
Dabich: I was hoping you’d chime in, being that you’ve experienced both ends of the spectrum. You’re my last hope, next to this guy’s grandparents!
Dabich – I adore you too!
Constant – my parents have been married for 41 years and are still in love. They hold hands down the street, can’t bear to be apart for too long, etc, etc. So there are a few examples where marriage can really work!! (although it sets a very difficult precedent for me!)
Oh!! That’s so great, Ziggy! I love the love!! That’s always nice to hear.
Uhhh HI!!
I can’t process this, I’ve been divorced longer than I was married. All I remember is walking down the isle pretty much knowing I was making a mistake. Damn if that little voice in my head wasn’t right! Marriage is just not for me. I pick losers, and they pick me. But its cool for others, as long as they don’t bitch about their spouse and jump right back in the fire after blathering on and on about stupid shit I don’t care to know. I’d marry Ziggy though
*ziggy blushes*
Bluez, isn’t Ziggy the greatest???
I sure think so if she doesn’t!
Ya can’t help but like the Zigmeister. Actually his personality reminds me SO much of my best bud Bill who sits next to me here at work everyday. He could be my brother I swear. We like the same dogs, food, movies, art , music and books. He’s just a joy to be around every day like I would imagine Zig is too IRL.
We love you Ziggy!!! MUAH!